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Paul Svensen, CEO and Founder of UberJets, a platform designed to democratize private aviation access, explains how Uber Jets leverages advanced technology and empty-leg flights to offer a pay-as-you-fly model. This approach makes private jets more accessible to a wider audience. Paul discusses the business model, the benefits for aircraft owners, and how the platform is challenging traditional fractional ownership models.
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Transcription
Introduction to the Private Aviation Industry
Paul Svensen: We are in an industry, what I like to consider works at a snail pace. For such fast jets that fly around, everything works really slow when it comes to change and adaptation.
Ben Fraser: Basically, you’re putting out opportunities for other firms, pilots, aircraft, companies to pick up an extra passenger if it’s along the route or if it’s not too far out of the way.
Paul Svensen: I did grow up in the industry seeing the way things were done. The model that they created really was, interestingly enough, really the Uber of private aviation before any of it happened. I pictured this being a product for folks that went from JetBlue and Delta first class and then this is their first time flying private and I was unpleasantly surprised by it.
Welcome to the Podcast
Ben Fraser: Welcome back to another episode of the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast. I am your host, Ben Fraser. Today, we’ve got a really exciting guest, Paul Svensen. He’s coming to talk about airplanes, flights, private jets, all the stuff that the ultra wealthy love to have access to. But he has created a really cool business called UberJets to really, in a lot of ways, democratize access to be able to fly private.
Love what they’re doing. So this is an interesting topic for a lot of our listeners that maybe have been on the fence, have thought about fractional ownership, thought about other ways to purchase a plane or a jet, but this is a whole new model.
This is the Invest Like a Billionaire podcast where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth.
The tools and tactics you’ll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor and help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors.
Meet Paul Svensen and UberJets
Ben Fraser: So Paul, welcome to the show. Excited to dig into this and talk about what you guys are doing.
Paul Svensen: Awesome. Thank you for having me, Ben. I’ve been an avid listener ever since we first had an introduction together. I’ve been very Very fascinated. I love the podcast and am a big fan myself, and I think so now as well.
Ben Fraser: Thanks.
I’m glad to hear that. Give us a little background on you on how you came to. The realization that this type of opportunity existed and it was needed for people and talking about how it works.
Paul Svensen: Yeah, it’s a great question. Just started all off. It’s funny. When I grew up, I always considered myself growing up in the industry.
My father started a company that’s very well known. One of the largest ones in the whole entire private aviation industry now called sentient jet. I was about six to seven years old when he sold it. So very young, maybe I didn’t remember all the little things, but from then on out, I basically grew up in the industry.
Our family had a Challenger 601, it was a Bombardier product, and a Hawker Raytheon product 800 XP. So I did grow up in the industry, seeing the way things were done. The model that they created really was, interestingly enough, we laughed around the family table, was really the Uber of private aviation before it even happened.
Because they did not own the aircraft. They put aircraft in a network and they still do to this day, I believe over there. He’s no longer with the company as he sold it when I was very young, but they really were deemed it’s actually in the Harvard Business Journal, basically being the Uber of private aviation or Uber of anything before it had to be done.
So from there on out, I saw a kind of a model that worked very well, obviously. But it did need a tune up. We are in an industry that I like to consider works at a snail pace. For such fast jets that fly around, everything works really slow when it comes to change and adaptation. So I went to school basically learning a lot of technology.
I found a lot of fascination in efficiency and how we can create an industry that moves a lot easier, a lot better, and, a lot faster and more financially secure as well. And that’s what we’ve, basically built here at UberJets powered by a virtual hangar, is exactly what you just said democratizing private aviation.
When it first got started, I’ll be the first to tell you, Ben, I pictured this being a product for folks that. Wait from JetBlue and Delta first class and then this is their first time flying private. And I was unpleasantly surprised by what we found. And it’s interesting enough. The podcast is called the best like a billionaire.
We have billionaire clients and it makes sense. Billionaires are smart and they know why should I own the asset? Why should I pay all that money when I only need to pay as you fly? And that’s the model that we created here instead of a big upfront deposit, like a lot of jet card models create and, charge about 200, 000 upfront for, a product and it debits down we see more of a subscription based model and think of like a Netflix and many other subscription based models all across the world now, but we’re doing it as pay as you fly.
So no big upfront, but you pay what is 14, 500, which includes a 5, 000 initiation fee to get started. And that is annually after that 9, 500 at the moment, possibly going up in the future, we’ll see it. The product seems to be really thriving, but what that allows Ben is that allows folks to pay as they fly.
So instead of putting up, like I said, a big deposit, if your flight’s 15, 000, then you’re only going to pay 15, 000 for what you fly, no big deposit, no waiting for anything to pop up or anything like that for, no, no surprises is what we call it.
Ben Fraser: Got it. So talk a little bit about.
Like what existed before the pay as you fly model, right? And as someone who the periphery is interested in aircraft, have not, low, it’s low private a whole lot. And yeah, I’m familiar with the fractional ownership model, right? Where you can basically pool capital together and maybe you’re a platform that helps you find other people to go in and you buy a portion of a plane, so to speak, and you get an access to a certain number of hours.
For the course of the year to use that jet. But the downside of that is if you don’t use it, you still have the expense that goes along with that. And so talk a little bit about your models differently and how do you actually deliver on that? Because part of it is. These are expensive aircraft to operate.
And, there’s a reason that the fresh ownership model works, but how are you disrupting that? And how are you actually creating a model that can sustain that?
Paul Svensen: Yeah, it brings up a great question. And disruptor is the number one word that comes to mind. It’s, I won’t lie, I’m sure the fractional companies aren’t a fan of us when you’re buying a three, 4 million fractional.
And when you only have to pay 14, 500 for a subscription based model. They’re not taking it lightly and I don’t blame them for doing the same thing. What the difference is what you’re doing and how our system operates and facilitates is, it’s the opposite of commercial aviation.
When you think of a commercial, you think about flying, booking your aircraft far in advance. So if you want to book a Delta or JetBlue flight, you think about doing it months in advance if you’re thinking about going across the country. With private aviation and what we’ve created, it’s the opposite.
Quite literally. I tell a lot of members if they are comfortable with waiting 24 hours prior to book, we advise doing that a hundred percent because it’s the last minute. And that’s what our systems really, shines at its best. What we’re doing on the technology side is. I don’t want to confuse everyone with the technology speak, but we’re pulling a lot of API calls from scheduling software companies, FAA data feeds.
One topic that’s been very popular recently is ADS B tracking technology. It’s another thing that we pull from.
Leveraging Empty Legs for Cost Efficiency
Paul Svensen: So what we’re doing for example, Ben, so from say you’re flying from Kansas city to Boston, we’re taking aircraft that could be going from Los Angeles to New York. That’s flying right over your head.
What they’re going to do is we’re tracking empty ones. Those empty aircraft that are going in that same or general direction. We’ll bid on your trip, and then you’ll be able to select from a rate of private aircraft of your choice. So no surprises when you get to the airport, like often happens with jet card models, and sometimes Fractional doesn’t put you on the aircraft that you actually bought.
No surprises with us, you’re actually going to show up on the aircraft, the exact make, year, model, and pilot experience is like what we just say. When it comes to, booking an aircraft through our platform. So that would make it a little bit more different than the fractional and the jet card program.
No big upfront deposits, no need to buy an aircraft, no need to pay the pilots, fix the wheel on the plane. All that stuff shouldn’t be your problem when you’re not flying, only pay for why you need to fly.
Ben Fraser: Yeah. Very interesting. So basically you’re putting out opportunities for others. Firms, pilots, aircraft companies pick up an extra passenger if it’s along the route, or if it’s not too far out of the way, and they get the incremental advantage of that.
It’s a much cheaper overall rate for you because. You’re being added to where they’re already going. I’d also imagine, there’s like in the truck industry, there’s like deadheads, I don’t know if that’s what it’s called in in the airline industry where basically there’s a one way flight that’s been booked, but then the pilot still has to get back to where they’re going to hang or the craft.
And it’s going to basically have no passengers on the way back. And so a lot of what I’ve heard is. A lot of the cost of private aircraft is you basically have to pay for a round trip whether you’re going one way or not, I don’t know if that’s necessarily true, but I’d imagine you also with the technology can create more visibility into picking up some of these kinds of one ways.
Is that also a part of it?
Paul Svensen: Yeah, exactly. And you did explain it very well in our industry. It’s called empty legs. So deadhead. Okay. Yep. So empty legs. You were there. And it’s exactly spoken the exact way you said it you couldn’t have said it better. We’re taking a lot of those empty legs, and they don’t necessarily have to be exact positioning.
Remember how I was brought up originally, you’re in Kansas City trying to get to Boston, and the plane’s in L. A. trying to get to New York? It can move around to different locations. What I tell members all the time is, and they say how does that work? I say airplanes fly. It just can just move to your next location, pick you up, and continue on to where it needs to go.
To answer your question, that’s exactly what our system does. It’s picking up on what is known in the industry. This is a very interesting fact. I’m not going to get into the environmentally friendly side of the house, but I consider us very environmentally friendly because we’re taking, What is known in the history, 40 percent of the private aircraft that are flying over our heads at this moment and all moments are empty.
No passengers on those aircraft. Isn’t that crazy? It’s a crazy stat. And so we find ourselves in a position where we’re filling those.
The Benefits for Aircraft Owners
Paul Svensen: And like you said, from the owner’s perspective to all our listeners who may own and you’re getting revenue on that aircraft that you wouldn’t have had you of, continued empty.
And then from our members’ standpoint of the house you’re not having to pay for the airplane to go to. Let’s go back to the Boston example from Kansas City. Go drop you off in Boston and then fly back empty to Kansas City. You’re only playing for what you’re actually flying. And that’s how it’s been a perfect marriage in between both, the owners And the, passengers slash members, it’s funny if people bring up different acronyms and what UberJets is I consider it more like Airbnb because you’re putting your aircraft, you’re putting your asset up for, another person to, utilize, and you’ll be making revenue on it.
And this, it helps even better because it was going empty anyways, often many of the times.
Ben Fraser: Yeah, absolutely. That’s a crazy stat, 40%. And that, that’s. That’s the reason why what you’re doing is actually really valuable for the industry, not only from an environmental standpoint, but also is going to drive down costs, right?
Now, all of a sudden, an owner of an aircraft can make revenue on the return flight or somewhere close to that. Then all of a sudden that drives more revenue per hour, per mile, whatever the metric you want to use and can actually drive down prices overall which should get a democratizing kind of this access who are the, who are usually.
The owners of the aircraft are like big fleets or who’s the owner of these?
Paul Svensen: Yeah. And that’s a great question. But the reason why I really bring up Airbnb is there’s individual owners and I’ll give you a great example. Because we had a member who had just signed up.
This was a couple of years ago. He had what they call is a Honda jet. Honda jet elite is the name of the aircraft. So think like handling a car, but for a jet, this is about a five seat passenger aircraft, smaller jet, not typical as much as used by our members as they like super mid sized to heavy jets like global express.
But this individual who became a member had a HondaJet. It was on a 135 certificate, which means it’s charterable, and that it met our criteria of Argus and Waveren safety standards, as well as our rigorous, what we call virtual hangar approved rating system. Just like you get out of a car service or you review a pizza, We do a review of the private aircraft, and that includes interior, exterior, pilot experience, and overall experience of your whole entire flight.
You have to keep a 4. 8 or higher standard to keep that aircraft in the program. Back to what I was saying about our member who had a HondaJet. Before he was with UberJets, and before he put it on what we have as the virtual hangar platform, he was only getting 10 hours a month revenue on that aircraft, so only flying 10 hours a month.
As soon as he put it on a virtual hangar platform, and our members were utilizing it, although it’s smaller and not as popular as our heavy jets like Gulfstream and Global Express’s, He was putting 80 hours a month on that same aircraft. So as you can imagine, that’s quite the jump in from what he was making, with the 10 hours to 80 hours.
And that’s an example of an individual putting his aircraft into our program and then getting recurring revenue from that bus, taking down all the costs on an aircraft that can be upwards of four to 5 million. So it really makes financial sense. If you’re going to buy a private aircraft. And you aren’t personally using it for over 200 hours plus to put it in a program in which you can receive recurring revenue, keeping those costs down low, because those costs on those aircraft are pretty, they’re very expensive.
I just got off the phone with a gentleman. He had shattered the windshield of a Lear 60. It’s just a bird strike. Things happen. It’s rare, but that cost came out to around 80, 000 to fix that windshield. And the worst part of it. Has it messed up his whole entire trip? And this is a personal owner who doesn’t have his aircraft in our program.
He’s just a friend of mine. He obviously missed the whole 4th of July with this aircraft. Thank God he had a friend. But when it comes to personal use, it’s a bummer and a bummer in the pocket as well.
Ben Fraser: Wow. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense, right? If you are an aircraft donor, you got it.
Cause you wanted the convenience of getting where you want in, when you want it, you’re going to turners. Yeah. You’re likely not using it a whole lot. It was probably some frequent users, but. I would guess a lot of these owners are, like you said, 10 hours a month, and that’s probably pretty normal, but what if they can put it in the program?
And if you have a rental at a vacation spot, it’s a house, right? You can do the same thing with Jeff. So it makes a lot of sense. So you’re creating access to airplanes that would probably never, Generally be be used anyway. So it’s actually.
Paul Svensen: Exactly. That’s exactly right.
And one thing that I should bring up that is we’ve seen such a, over the last couple of years, a lot of our members start as members don’t own an aircraft and they’re comfortable to buy an aircraft through our aircraft marketplace that we’ve created because they are aware of, Hey, this isn’t as big as a commitment as I thought it was going to be.
because I have some vehicle that is going to be putting revenue on my aircraft. So we’ve actually seen our aircraft marketplace exchange that we’ve built, and we’re very proud of it. It’s going to continue to increase. We’re adding a new feature to the new app with which you can buy and sell aircraft as well.
So it’s becoming very popular, but I would like to see folks who buy aircraft with us who were originally members who had, just tampered around seeing what private aviation is like. And next thing they’re like, they bought a Gulfstream G200, an example of a couple of weeks ago.
It’s interesting to say.
Ben Fraser: It makes you think about going back to the Airbnb model where, Hey, so I was thinking about a vacation rental or having another property somewhere they like to go visit and I don’t want to buy for whatever reason. But now if I know I could monetize this asset and actually make it pay for itself, we’re actually.
Make money. Then all of a sudden that threshold to make that decision goes down and now that they know they can put it back on the platform and they still get the access. And I will say it’s a, it’s, you’re going to buy aircraft. It’s there’s some great tax write offs and other things too. You could do some, there’s some benefits to owning, but the threshold kind of comes down a little bit as you can actually generate revenue off that asset.
To offset some of the dig up front costs of that.
Paul Svensen: Exactly, and you said it, very true, there are tax write offs, but imagine instead of just having tax write offs, you also get the revenue as well. And that seems to be where the real attractiveness to that.
Ben Fraser: So in this scenario where the owner is an individual And they’re putting it on your platform. How do the pilots fit into this? Because obviously, I’m assuming the others are the ones that are flying the people card. And we’re anywhere. So how do you guys manage that? They’re to be pilots.
Do they basically? Work for your platform or how does that work? It’s just.
Paul Svensen: Yes, it’s a great question. Again, what we do is, I have many folks constantly knocking on my door, giving me calls. Hey, can we be pilots on board the virtual hangar? And the answer is we do not manage the pilots.
The owners will hire pilots whether they do it to select themselves, and many don’t have the time for it, that’s how they’re able to, core wealth and own a private jet. If they have a management company, do it. And if that management company is approved by our virtual hangar platform, then your aircraft is into our platform as well.
So most of the time, Ben, to answer your question, The owner will hire a management company that manages the pilots. Think like airbnb if you own a bunch of houses. But you don’t want to be the guy dealing with all the houses if you hire a management company. It’s similar. Very similar.
Ben Fraser: Interesting Similarly how the fractional ownership companies do it too, right?
They usually have staffing companies for the pilots to help You know.
Paul Svensen: That is correct though the interesting thing with fractional and I talked about fractional, you know to a new member Who just signed up the other day? He was a part of one of the major fractional companies And the fractional pilots go to different aircraft.
When you are an owner, your pilots are assigned to just your aircraft, that same exact make and model serial number. Those pilots are always on your aircraft. So it does make it a little interesting because, just like a car, think of a car, right? Not one, I have an Escalade, not one of the same Escalades are the same.
Some cars have a little finicky try doing this. It’s the same with aircraft. Is it, if your pilot really knows your aircraft well, that’s the most trusted, you feel the most safe and that’s, what’s interesting enough, all our pilots are always assigned to the same exact make and model and serial number.
Ben Fraser: Yeah, absolutely.
Billionaire Clients and Their Preferences
Ben Fraser: Talk about, you said you have some billionaire clients and Hey, this shows the best, like a billionaire. But what was the appeal for them to join your platform versus, having a fractional ship or owning their own plane, right? What was the appeal to them?
Paul Svensen: That’s a great question.
The appeal to the owners is so different from the members who are billionaires. And the reason is they all have so many different reasons. Some are done with, I just got off a call with a member who is a billionaire, happens to be a billionaire a couple months ago.
I’ll never forget this. He said, Paul, I’m done. I am fired by pilots. I fired the maintenance guys. And I’m like, Oh I don’t want to put anyone in a situation where they’re getting laid off or anything like that. I felt bad at first. And he said, I just don’t have time for the headache, and I don’t want to own any more planes.
It’s not so much of a cost when you’re a billionaire, because, but it’s so much of how much capacity in your mind you have to handle and deal with all of that airplane stuff. And that’s one reason why one one had joined, others, that’s an example. Some use it as they do their own private aircraft, but they say, Hey, when one goes down, give you an example, my friend who has the layer 60s windshield goes down, he’s not a billionaire, but we’ve seen billionaires where something goes wrong with their aircraft where there’s a small mechanical issue.
Maybe the tire is acting up. They need new brakes. That’s where they come in and we use them as a supplemental lift. So they’ll use our aircraft on our platform. Another great example is I just talked to a gentleman. He is in North Carolina. I’m trying to remember which part of North Carolina.
He owns a sanitation Mustang. So a smaller private jet. And he said, Paul, I need to use you guys when I’m flying. I need more iron. He said, quote unquote, I need more iron, aka when he was flying from Carolina to California, he didn’t want to stop for fuel on that aircraft and may even need two fuel stops.
For example, he would get himself a Citation 10. I know he’s flown that often with us. And that goes nonstop. And, fun fact, the Citation 10 is actually the fastest private jet in the world. So we’d like to move there quickly. And then vice versa, on smaller flights, sometimes you have owners who own King Airs and Pilatus PC 12s, which are turboprop aircraft.
And they say, Hey, I need something that’s going to go nonstop or like I meant to say, vice versa. Somebody owns a Gulf stream or global express, and it’s just a short hop. They don’t want to put all that operational costs, landing time on the airframe cycles on the engine just for a small hop.
So they’ll use us as a supplemental lift. So there’s different case scenarios why billionaires would have the aircraft and then some more, some of them are my favorite. This is not just billionaires, but I have so many members and this is interesting. I really didn’t think this would happen. But because you can select the year make and model on the platform, we have some folks who go, Hey, I was thinking about buying this, citing Excel and I want to find my family around on one for the next year without actually buying it.
So I’m only going to book Excel on your platform. And then lo and behold, time goes on. They like the aircraft, they buy it, or maybe it wasn’t a fit for them. And they just, we have 10 million on an airplane that they don’t like. So again, the billionaires are interesting. All our members are interesting.
They’re smart people. That’s why they’re with the membership.
Ben Fraser: Yeah, it’s a great way to try before you buy and write a 10, 000, 000 check. And right. As far as God, I don’t have people that do that with Turo, which is for cars, car rentals, and they’re looking at a different car, different makes and they’ll go and rent them and they’re all in their hometown just to try them out and see.
Paul Svensen: If you know it before committing, I’m a big car collector.
I have quite a few. And that platform to me is very interesting. I see some cases in areas where I would not want my car to be rented out to folks like that because it’s a little wild west over there. But. When it comes to, like you said, instead of paying 250, 000 for a Bentley, why don’t you try it on the app before you buy it and see if you like it or not?
Love it. So how many plays do you have on the platform right now? There’s over 3100 aircraft on the platform. And that’s constantly growing and sometimes decreasing because like I said, that rigorous standard of, being virtual hangar approved, you’d have to meet that 4. 8 standard. So those rating systems, we really enforce and we do it then because We want to make sure when we’re building a community of members that they’re on the top notch best aircraft that we can possibly offer them.
So if one doesn’t meet those standards, we will take it off the platform. I’ll give you a quick story. This is an example of another owner of an aircraft who owns a Gulfstream G4. And I spoke with his management company’s CEO. Pretty big management company. One of the biggest in the country. They manage heavy aircraft.
So Gulfstream, Global Express. And I got off the phone with him and he said, Paul, I love this new platform because we get the feedback that we can actually tell the owner. Hey, you really do need to redo the interior on the seats, not just for virtual hanger UberJets clients, but for other folks that are chartering it out.
They’re saying this is a, this interior is getting older. This is getting tiring. So here’s actual feedback from real people instead of just me, the CEO of the management company telling you, Hey, I want to redo your interior so I can make some money. It actually is coming from the consumer, which is really interesting and neat and new.
No one’s ever done it before.
Ben Fraser: That’s awesome.
Future of UberJets and the Virtual Hangar
Ben Fraser: What, where do you see your platform going over, the next several years? What’s, what are your goals and where are you guys going?
Paul Svensen: The sky’s the limit quite literally with UberJets and the virtual hangar. We see a model in which this is the new way.
It’s not just me saying it. I get off the phone with lots of sales clients saying, why hasn’t this been a thing for a very long time? My vice president of global partnerships was in one of our, one of our UberJets trucks the other day and he gets a knock on the window and the gentleman goes, I was just on the phone with him and he goes, is this for real?
The gentleman who, this was in Palm Beach, so it is definitely a qualified flier and knocks on the window, is this for real? And then pauses and says, why is this the first time I’ve ever heard of this slash? Why has no one thought of this before? And it just shows you an example of it catching on so quickly, people are finding, hey, This is as simple as it should be.
And when it comes to, like I said, the sky’s the limit. We really believe in it, as long as the platform continues to increase in it, it is increasing a ton. I will tell you a lot of businesses were hurt in COVID. We didn’t do well, it was an opportunity for us as a smaller company at the time to really grow and find ourselves during COVID.
And we found a lot of folks as we had just gone through COVID. Didn’t want to buy an aircraft, they didn’t know what the market was going to do. Didn’t want to buy a big fractional and didn’t want to put up a big deposit. So at the time they said, let’s do this. And they stuck with us. And another fun fact here, Ben, is that 60 percent of our members come referral based.
So if one member signs up, there’s a 60 percent chance that he is going to refer another member. And which we give three months to both is pretty good. We call it our birds of a feather flock together program. And it truly is. It truly is interesting to see how much it’s, how much the word has gotten around lately.
And I think we’re just scratching the surface to be truthful.
Ben Fraser: That’s awesome. Paul, so fun. Thanks for giving us the rundown of the industry, how you guys are changing it and a really cool platform and you definitely got to check out UberJets, virtual hanger. Paul, what’s the best way for people to learn more about your company and become a member and jump in and see what flights are available?
Paul Svensen: Yeah, I invite everyone to take a look at our brand new Virtual Hanger app on both the Apple Play, Apple Store and the Google Play Store. Start looking at flights. We have a wonderful system that actually gives you real live flight time. Of what the approximate cost will be of a flight. So take a look.
Feel free to search around and from there if you like it, sign up as a member and let’s get you in the sky.
Ben Fraser: Awesome. Thanks so much, Paul.
Paul Svensen: Awesome. Thanks Ben.
Ben Fraser: This is the Invest like a Billionaire podcast where we uncover the alternative investments and strategies that billionaires use to grow wealth. The tools and tactics you’ll learn from this podcast will make you a better investor. And help you build legacy wealth. Join us as we dive into the world of alternative investments, uncover strategies of the ultra wealthy, discuss economics, and interview successful investors.
