In this episode, we sit down with Jeremy Goff, CEO of Hiram Capital, to talk about both the energy sector and the private credit space. Jeremy shares from his background working for Blackstone, the largest alternative asset manager, talking through how energy has shifted over recent years and where it’s headed. Then he dives into his transition from private equity to private debt, and shares a peek behind the curtain on the structure of private credit deals and how he fills a niche that banks won’t.

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Transitioning from Private Equity to Private Debt w/ Jeremy Goff

We’ve got a fun show for you. We’re joined by Jeremy Goff. Jeremy was formerly working at Blackstone, which was the largest alternative asset management company in the world at one point and still probably is. He’s been in the alternative space for several years and has started his own shop, a private credit, where he’ll talk a lot about what that is. We also dive into conversations around energy markets, in which he has a background and where that’s going.

Where is oil going? He has a deep background in the energy sector as well as private credit, which is an amazing mix between income, safety, and upside opportunity, so you want to know about this.

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We have a guest that we’re excited to be here, Jeremy Goff.

It’s good to be with you guys.

Thanks for coming. This is fun where we have a little more personal interaction here, so it’d be great. Jeremy and I used to work together at a company called Tortoise Capital Advisors. Jeremy’s here because he has started his own firm called Hiram Capital doing private credit or lending to bigger real estate. We wanted to bring him on to know what’s going on with the market and understand a little bit about what’s happening in the private credit world. We work with a lot of institutional investors. Our show is trying to educate about what are the big boys doing and how they are investing. Jeremy, talk a bit about your background.

I’ve got a little bit of a nontraditional background. Prior to my time with Ben over at Tortoise, I started my career in the military. As I left, I was trying to figure out whether or not I was going to do an MBA. At that time, it was after the financial crisis. As you can imagine, the MBA programs were full of other Wall Streeters trying to figure out what they were going to do and decided not to. I was lucky enough to meet some folks from Blackstone at the time. I was a very nontraditional hire for them, but I ended up making it through that process and working for Blackstone for a number of years.

For those who don’t know what Blackstone is, they’re the alternative.

They’re a very large alternative asset manager.

Aren’t they the largest?

They’re probably the largest and they span the alternative spectrum, so everything from a hedge fund, fund investing, private real estate, private credit, and what they’re known best for is private equity.

They are humongous and all the largest institutional investors go to them.

They’re close to $1 trillion in assets.

I think they have an infrastructure fund that has close to $1 trillion in commitments. I’m sure they would tell you the same thing. It’s always great to have that capital at your disposal, I would say, but it also creates issues for value investing.

Where do you put that much money? The problem is how do you create 10%, 15% returns when dealing with ten figures.

It’s finding these little avenues. For example, on the energy side, they owned a company called Cheniere. For folks who don’t know what Cheniere is, it’s a publicly-traded company. It’s an LNG export company.

That wasn’t even cool.

It wasn’t even known. It was like, “I hope this works out,” at the time. They’re the number one LNG exporter in the world.

What is LNG?

It’s liquefied natural gas.

The problem with natural gas is it’s all local. It has to be piped through pipes. You can’t ship natural gas from here to Norway or wherever it’s needed. It has to be compressed and liquified and then put on special tankers, and then it can be shipped, but that’s a fairly new technology.

At the time, they were looking at that trend. They were already looking at a place and I knew that oil and gas production was going to get very strong in the United States. They also knew that the United States would have to become an exporter of hydrocarbons. Who do you start investing in to capture that value several years from now? A company like Chenier.

They figured that out and you helped put together their equity strategies. Is that what you do for them?

I work primarily on private equity strategies. The most knowledge I gained was that I worked for someone, his name is Tony James, and he was the president there for a long time. He retired in January 2022. I worked on a lot of his special projects and investor presentations. Sitting with him and working on those presentations and how he looked at the world and how he took what seemed to me to be completely disparate data sets and built them into a story to convince institutional investors, who, by the way, are some of the most sophisticated investors in the world that what Blackstone was doing was the right place to be.

They have been right over and over.

I was like, “There’s a way to figure this out,” and again, it’s not rocket science. It’s just work and it’s exciting.

Before we go too much further, let’s talk about the public market. We had a fun little conversation, but as we sit here, the markets are crashing and then rallying and crashing more. What’s your opinion about the public markets?

They scare me to death. We still monitor. Even though we’re not involved in the public markets, we still monitor Bloomberg. There are days when I don’t even turn it on because I don’t want to see the flashing red, or if it’s flashing green, how long is that going to last?

In our studies, we’re in the real estate business quite a bit and looking at public REITs, Real Estate Investment Trusts, which are real estate packaged into a public stock that all of a sudden trade because they’re public. They trade at an average of seven times the book value. Meaning that a $7 investment buys you $1 worth of real estate. Why is that? It’s nuts. It’s more than a liquidity premium. It’s a hype factor or fear factor. It’s all priced based on nothing. Fundamentals no longer matter, do they?

I don’t think they do. Quite frankly, I don’t know that a lot of REITs investors that are investing on the public side even know what’s in their REIT. They’re buying it, but do they know what’s sitting inside of there. You could possibly be overexposed to retail. If you’re over-exposed to retail, COVID was a very bad time for you on your REIT or you could be in a hospitality REIT. That was bad. You still have to look at what’s in there because it’s not wrapped in a nice package and you can trade it via the equity markets doesn’t necessarily mean that you shouldn’t pay attention to what’s inside.

If you pay $7 for $1 worth of real estate and that real estate does super well, it’s not worth $1 anymore. It’s worth $1.10 or $1.20. Does the stock go up or down? You have no idea because it’s not based on that. It’s based on a random emotion attached to this, celebrity factor, marketing factor, and/or information disinformation factors.

[bctt tweet=”Investors need to have skin in the game. ” via=”no”]

We were laughing about the names of these securities, but the fact of the matter is that sometimes it works. Closed-end funds are a great example next to REITs. If you look at some of the closed-end funds, folks buy these at the IPO, and they sit there and immediately go to a discount. Their NAV is trading at one place, and the security price is trading at another.

Explain that real quick.

A closed-end fund is a portfolio like a mutual fund, but it’s in a closed-end wrapper. It trades like a stock. You can buy it via ticker.

They don’t issue more shares or withdraw shares?

They can, but most of them trade at a significant discount.

They can either trade at a premium to what they own or a discount to what they own. 

They very rarely do they trade on NAV.

It’s what the underlying assets are worth.

It’s very rare that you would see one trade that way. It’s very rare that you see one moved to a premium. In most cases, they trade at a discount.

This show is focused on opening up the door of alternatives to everyday investors into high-net-worth investors. You’re in that camp. You love alternatives. You can do so much with alternatives in terms of income, capital preservation, and growth. What are your favorite strategies? How are you placing your own capital? Are you in the public markets?

I’m actually not. I do put a lot of my own capital into my own products. That’s important for our investors also that we have skin in the game, which if you’re looking at alternatives, you should always find a manager who does have skin in the game. It’s a meaningful way to show support, but it’s funny that alternatives are misunderstood.

I’ve heard you guys talk about Swenson before when he built a Yale Portfolio. He was the godfather of alternatives for institutional investors and how to understand them, which is why the Yale endowment has done amazingly well from a return perspective. I grew up in this industry looking at private equity. Trying to understand why it’s valuable as opposed to a public stock is very different.

Private equity is essentially a pool of capital that has been committed to a manager. They are out looking for companies that are either private, to begin with or are public now, but they would like to take private in order to create more value within that company. That value is created by cleaning up the balance sheet, whether that’s adding leverage or taking away leverage, depending on the market that could help.

Private equity gets beat up for the way jobs work within those companies, but their biggest goal is to create efficiencies within the company. Over the long run, if you were to look at private equity portfolios, you do see job creation within those portfolios through efficiency, but they’re bringing in operational experts from other companies in the industry and trying to build a better company.

This is a funny example. Blackstone bought Hilton, the hotel business at the top of the market. At the time, that transaction was done by a gentleman named Michael Chae, but I could be wrong. They bought the company and I was like, “There’s no way that this thing is going to turn out okay.” What they did was they made Hilton more efficient and allowed them to grow internationally. They exited a hugely valuable company that was operating way better.

Did they take it private?

They did take private.

They took it private to get rid of the scrutiny and put it on the operating table without criticism, scrutiny, public regulation, etc. They put it on the operating table and turned it into the $6 million man and then turned it public again.

That is the strategy. That was a great way of putting it into a nutshell. Take something private, make it better, and take it public again, or sell it to a strategic buyer who will continue to add more value to it.

You are at Blackstone doing the private equity and you transitioned into the energy space.

Energy became interesting to me because that’s what I was working on. Blackstone decided to separate their energy business from its core fund, which has always been Blackstone Capital Partners, a multi-sector fund. They can focus on anything. When shale and the US production became very strong and there was even a lot of production going on off the West Coast of Africa, they decided to take that team and create it.

This didn’t mean that the core fund couldn’t participate, but they did want to have a concentrated strategy within energy. That interested me and I was born and raised in Kansas City. I never planned on staying in New York long-term and my boss knew that. I got to know the folks at Tortoise as I was looking to come back to Kansas City. Coming off of the energy fund at Blackstone, it was a good fit. I had no experience in public markets.

For anybody who doesn’t know, Tortoise became one of the largest ETF businesses in energy. They were the first ones that packaged MLPs.

At one point, they were the largest MLP holder probably in the world.

An ETF is an exchange-traded fund. It’s like a mutual fund. You go public and it trades. 

In many cases, it’s passive. It’s based on an index.

We want to talk about private credit strategies. Hopefully, we’ll get there, but the energy space is super interesting right now, too. You are primarily the equity strategist. You’re the guy with the Lego set trying to figure out how to construct the ultimate vehicle, but energy is interesting. You see oil is hovering around $100 a barrel and all of a sudden, the people may not realize the US has become the world’s largest producer of oil and gas.

JP Morgan had a $185 number out there at one point.

Personally, I have been predicting deflation in the oil space for years because of technology. What we saw in the ‘90s that fracking revolution eliminated a massive amount of risk in drilling and unlocked billions and trillions in hydrocarbon production previously on economic deposits. What happens when that goes to the war field in Saudi Arabia? What happens when that technology is deployed in Russia? There’s no shortage of hydrocarbons on the planet. My view was that technology was going to suppress prices.

We saw that happening. At the peak of the shale boom, when US producers arguably were producing more than they ever had before, we saw oil prices come down. At one point, we were down close to $20 a barrel or something like that. Everybody was shocked, “What are we going to do now?” It’s great for some and terrible for others.

[bctt tweet=”You cannot find value in energy in the public markets.” via=”no”]

This technology allows them to ramp up production incredibly rapidly, but then they got smacked down and punished by Wall Street. Now, everybody’s like, “Prices are high,” and they’re saying, “We’re not going to increase production because we don’t want to get smacked down again.”

OPEC is losing control. They’re like, “Darn the US. OPEC no longer has pricing power and they’re meeting for days on end.” It was interesting. I thought that the days of $100 oil were completely gone, but then there’s always an event that proves us all wrong.

Are you bullish on oil?

The market got very excited about renewables and clean energy too. The price of oil is coming down, producers are laying off production, and everybody is buying Teslas. Everybody got excited about green energy, COVID happened, and then everybody was like, “Nobody’s going to drive cars anymore.” What we realized is that we were a little quick to the punch on that and we still need oil and gas.

All the people driving Teslas still don’t realize that it takes all those hydrocarbons to fuel those gas-powered power plants. Now, that oil goes back above $100 a barrel, and the gas prices are going up, everybody’s like, “I don’t understand,” but we’re all still very dependent on it. This idea that we can wean ourselves off oil over the next several years is a little shortsighted, but that’s my opinion.

We’re seeing renewables continuing to take greater market share, which I’m super happy about. In the Western world, we saw consumption at least flattening during the recession. It’s picking up now, but conservation is working.

There were obviously some horrific accidents that occurred there, but Europe is a little quick to say shut down all the nuclear power plants. Honestly, that was also shortsighted. It’s easy for me to say now because we’re sitting here going like, “You should’ve kept those open,” but it’s a tough decision to make.

Where’s the best play in the energy space right now?

I’m speaking within the United States. If I’m someone who has the capital to put work in the United States, and I put some to work myself in this area, there are still producers within the United States who have interesting anchorage that is producing steadily oil and gas every day. These guys aren’t traded on the public markets. They do raise funds to support what they’re doing. We always introduce folks to those people.

Are these private companies?

They are and the way to do it now is privately. You cannot find value in energy in the public markets, in my opinion.

You can’t find value in energy in the public markets, which I agree with. It’s so funny because I did my first private oil and gas investment. Unfortunately, I don’t know anything about oil and gas. It’s part of me doing my due diligence on operators and go figure it out. I placed a little bit of capital and go, “Let’s see how it works,” but the numbers are insane with these guys, especially with the $100 oil and the returns are incredible.

There are ways to invest with guys that almost look like a fixed-income play because once these are up and running, they’re paying you cashflow off the sale of their oil. It’s a pretty steady play.

A lot of these smaller operators are much lower overhead. The great price of oil is much lower than gas.

They are structural ways to do it so that you don’t have to worry about that overhead.

People don’t realize how fragmented the market is. Think about the Exxons of the world. Thousands of small operators have 32 Wells in Western Kansas on 1,000 acres and they’re cranking out the cash.

Even more so now. The toughest part I had with everything that occurred as we started to go back to $100 oil was the idea that these big oil behemoths, the Exxons and Chevrons of the world, could turn this spigot back on overnight and reduce gas prices that everything would go back to normal. The structural ability for them to do that is impossible because this is still a very large operation in place. Even to see the value catch back up is going to take a while.

The funny thing to me is the political infrastructure too. We don’t want to be a political show, but the White House is calling for greater production out of Venezuela, but we’re the largest oil producer in the world. Do we not want to increase production? It’s nuts. It is a hypocritical BS.

Which is why I can understand someone looking at the markets and saying, “I still believe in energy, but how do I capitalize on this?” The messaging is very confusing.

The small energy player is such a good opportunity. Who was it that said the definition of oil well is a hole in the ground with a liar on top? Finding great operators is absolutely critical and that’s true of all private spaces. That’s the hardest thing about private and alternative investments is finding the right operators.

In private credit, especially on the real estate side, where we do some work with development construction, it’s all about who the developer is. It’s about their track record, ability to execute, and ability to get it done.

You started in private equity, worked in public equities on the energy side, and now you’ve transitioned back to the private debt side. We like that. We know that space. Talk a little bit about what drew you to that. What are the attractive dynamics, especially in this environment? How does it compare contrast with private equity?

Maybe first define private debt. People think debt is bad, but debt is great. We’re not talking about banks here.

No, we’re not. I also like to think of it to bring it back to what you guys have spoken about before. It’s a lot like saying why invest in a hedge fund. There is a lot of different private credit. The way I got into it was while we were working at Tortoise, we started looking at alternatives to diversify Tortoise’s asset base. Private credit got interesting to me because I saw that there was a way to find opportunities where you’re acting as a bank essentially, but you’re able to structure things in a way that takes you away from public market exposure.

Most private credit investors do this where pricing credit is based on risk and not based on what the public markets are telling us that it should be. We go in and we look at our counterparty. We look at their experience and the dynamics within that sub-market or whatever that market is and try to determine the best way to do that. Generally speaking, we’re using the equity cost of capital as more of a benchmark than we are a benchmark rate, if that makes sense.

Everybody knows what a bank is. You go stick your money in it. You do it for free. They don’t pay you anything. They go make loans sometimes, but mostly not, and they hold the money. That’s boring. What are you doing differently than that?

It goes to a bigger trend.

Are you a bank?

I don’t want to say that because I’m sure there are a lot of regulations.

Is there a gap in banking?

[bctt tweet=”Every portfolio will not be perfect, but what you’re trying to do is create a portfolio that has enough diversity between developers, geographies, and all of that to reduce your losses. ” via=”no”]

The financial crisis changed a lot of things and also the bank’s ability to take on too much exposure. It was the genesis for private credit markets coming to life. You’re seeing it take place. It’s a larger trend in what we’re doing. If you look it in, you’re going to go look at leveraged buyout transactions, which is how private equity firms buy their companies, they use a good deal of debt alongside their equity.

To buy a public company, you go borrow money for that.

You’re cleansing and recreating a new balance sheet. Traditionally, before the financial crisis, it was always the large bulge bracket banks that were the large financiers of that, the Citis, the JP Morgans, and the Goldman Sachs. What they realized was, “If the banks can do that, why can’t I lend on an LBO too?” If you go and you look at the cap table of an LBO, a leveraged buyout, and say you look at KKR’s cap table, you might see Blackstone credit in the debt side of that capital stack because now these guys are like, “We can do the debt between each other.”

You have this huge direct lending movement within the private equity markets, creating BDCs, a business development company focused on small businesses. I don’t think the banks are getting pushed out, but it’s released some of the pressure on the lending side. It’s not the banks don’t have all this experience within the transactional space. I think you have guys who have the transactional experience that can also price it effectively.

Break down a sample deal of you guys come in, where you’re at in the capital stack, and all the players.

I’ll use a development deal as an example. We work with a number of different developers and construction companies who develop assets all across the country. We’re looking for guys doing deals in areas that we feel have appropriate density, meaning the population makes sense. We like the project. We start talking about what their typical cap table looks like. One of the ways that we’ve sold ourselves to them is, “A bank may lend 60% loan to cost.” Meaning the cost of the project, they will loan them 60% of that.

If the cost is $1 million, they’ll loan you $600,000?

Correct. The rest is equity. Forty percent equity in a deal is a lot for an equity holder for a developer. Maybe he’s doing two projects, but his ability to do multiple projects becomes very slim.

He’s doing one deal instead of two deals.

Know if he’s using a regional bank, there’s only so much they can lend out to a guy at one time. You need other people in that ecosystem to be able to do financing, so they’ll come to us.

The rates may be significantly higher.

They are because we’re looking at the bank loan to cost as our metric on risk. A lot of that’s based on what they’re able to do, but they’re not looking at the developer’s track record and not the city’s demographics. Maybe they are, but we’re probably looking at it more granularly than them. We also liked the bank being there and we don’t want to do anything that’s going to disturb or disrupt their piece of the pie. We will work with the developer to make sure that we can come in and do a junior slice.

You’ll do a second lien, basically. He had his higher cost, but it’s also a smaller slab. The cost is not that high, the net cost.

Our position is we agree to their return, even at double the bank rate.

Instead of a $1 million build, you got to come up with $400,000 equity. Maybe it’s $200,000. All of a sudden, I can go do two deals. The opportunity cost is there.

They have to go raise 40% that cost of equity from private investors.

You’re filling a niche that the banks won’t do and possibly offering investors high single-digit returns that you can’t get anywhere else. Certainly, not in your bank and pretty safe because you guys, again, are more sophisticated. You can be a sophisticated underwriter and underwrite things that banks do not do, but they make a lot of sense to underwrite properly. Our debt fund is now several years in the running, soaring through COVID. We have very smart and clever underwriting, but it’s very different than how a bank would underwrite. It’s much more mathematical-based. It’s been proven out through, through good times and bad.

It’s like the guy standing in the hall making promises. There’s always something that’s going to come up that you don’t see. Every portfolio, it’s not going to be perfect, but what you’re trying to do is create a portfolio that has enough diversity between developers, geographies, and all of that to reduce your losses.

From an investor’s perspective, if they put money into a private deal, if the market goes up or down, or whatever here, it doesn’t affect them. That’s pretty cool and potentially, income, which is the hardest to get a piece in your portfolio, is how do you get income. That’s no problem in a debt piece. I don’t know if you guys do it, but it’s possible in the private debt space, you also get an equity kicker. You get warrants. Explain what a warrant is or an equity kicker.

I look at it as an option. In the money option, you can exercise to add a little juice to the return at the end of the day.

You get a piece of the deal. Not only do they owe you money, but you also get a little slice of the upside in addition. You get to play, but you have no risk or very little risk of downside loss. You get income and you get to play a little bit. I love that. The first rule of making money is don’t lose money.

It’s funny because when we talked to a lot of prospective investors, the one thing that always comes up is liquidity, which I’m sure you guys discuss quite a bit. This idea is that going into a private fund is a lockup. Everybody’s like, “My money’s going to be locked up for six years. What if I need liquidity within that time?” My explanation to them is that, one, people have an irrational need for liquidity that they don’t need.

It’s more of an emotional need than an actual need.

My thing is like, “If you gave me $1 million and I pay you 8.5% every year on that $1 million over a six-year period, is that enough liquidity in your mind?” Those deals are going to roll out as well. It’s not like your money’s locked up for the full time. As a deal matures and is harvested, you’re getting your principal back.

One thing for investors who haven’t done a lot of private funds investing is understanding that, one, lockup is not truly like a lockup of your capital forever. There are distributions and everything that takes place within the life cycle of a fund. I also think that you get to see where your principal is all the time with low volatility. It’s staying there. The ability to reduce volatility and correlation in the market is valuable for anybody.

In liquidity, say you’ve got a $5 million portfolio. What is your real liquidity need? Worst case scenario, “I need $500,000,” then take a $500,000, make sure it’s liquid, and roll the other $4.5 million into something that you don’t need. Liquidity because the liquidity is expensive.

The opportunity is called the opportunity cost, a loan of cash.

The public markets are liquid, but at what cost?

We look at Netflix as a great example. Arguably, one of the best hedge fund managers in the world took a bath on that. No matter how much work you do and pay attention to fundamentals, you can take a huge loss based on somebody’s emotion. Netflix came back down to evaluation. It’s more attractive. It makes more sense.

Aren’t they still negative cashflow? How much does a company worth when it’s a bonfire of cash? How do you value a company that literally throw your cash and light a match? It’s hard for me to say.

[bctt tweet=”The interesting thing about private credit is our ability to be flexible and creative in structure, which banks are not great at.” via=”no”]

That’s the problem. That’s a hard decision for anyone to make. Even the best guys in the world have a hard time determining at what point that’s going to happen because we don’t know. Everybody is sold off on one news, and then within the same earnings report, they said that they were literally going to do ten times worse in the next quarter. Everybody’s like, “What does that mean?”

The private markets are so much more predictable. You can solve the unknowns and make good decisions that are not based on emotion and n celebrity factors.

It is control over the outcome and that’s how we always explain it is that we don’t have control over everything. The environment that we live in is unpredictable, but at the same time, we have the time and patience to make sure that our outcome is better than what it might’ve been if we were forced seller in the market. That’s the difference.

What are you seeing right now in this current environment where maybe there’s some turbulence in the public markets? Interest rates are going up.

A 75 basis point hike is coming whether we like it or not.

At this point economic cycle, where you’re at is probably a pretty good place to be because you’ve got equity covering your position, that you’re second behind a lender, but what are the things you’re looking at? You’re in a lot of industrial investments.

We love industrial right now. It’s hard not to love it. Everything that’s taken place across the world from a conflict standpoint has made everyone realize that we need to bring a lot of the logistical supply chain back onshore. This is a cycle. If you look back, we’ve done this 2 or 3 times, where we offshore than we onshore.

I’m like this huge student of Howard Marks because he looks at everything within cycles. In every market, you have the main cycle and all these multiple cycles. For us, industrial right now is a large cycle and is in a very good place. You’re going to continue to build out onshore of logistical supply chains, not because of last-mile overnight Amazon-type shipping, but generally speaking, we’re going to need more warehouses everywhere and we liked that.

The hardest part of capturing this opportunity is finding the smaller markets where we’re in the early innings of that cycle. In Kansas City, my mind is a little bit later inning like a Boise. We’re trying to find where those later or early ending assets are. That’s tricky because they’re going to build and I wasn’t ready to go, but that’s all about finding the right partners from a development standpoint.

Industrial space, but what about the debt space? You’ve switched to the bond market.

I don’t want to say we’re laughing our way to the bank on that. We had to adjust our own pricing based on that. We ended up having a price a little lower than we should have based on how quickly interest rates move up. That doesn’t bother me because I’m not necessarily losing money on that deal. The ability to create income without volatility is also important. The ability to know that you’re going to get that coupon payment every quarter. That’s what it’s about.

You’re not like buying a bond because when the rates are a lot higher, there’s a lot more margin and spread. It’s a very different animal.

I look at what we do as more of a spread to equity or anything like that because we’re looking at what the cost of capital on the equity is and what they can survive with and still be creative to the whole project.

From an investor’s perspective, it’s like a high-yield bond but without volatility.

That’s right because our duration is also sure.

Are your loans 1, 2, or 3 years?

We may write a five-year note. The interesting thing about private credit is our ability to be flexible and creative in structure, which banks are not great at. We all know that. What we’re able to do is take something and say like, “We’re going to do a five-year note.” The duration on that is around 36 months max. We will then give ourselves hold protection for eighteen months. Meaning, whether or not you sell this thing, you’re still paying us eighteen months’ worth of interest. That’s how we create stability and consistency within the debt instrument.

Thanks so much for coming out.

It’s been a great conversation with you guys. I enjoyed it.

What’s the best way if people want to learn more about Hiram?

We have a website www.HiramCap.com. You can reach out to us on there or find us on LinkedIn or any of the other social media outlets that I personally don’t have a lot of experience with.

Important Links

• Jeremy Goff
• Hiram Capital
• LinkedIn – Hiram Capital

About Jeremy Goff

Jeremy Goff is Managing Partner and CEO of Hiram Capital. Mr. Goff has 17 years of experience in the development of debt and equity portfolios both private and listed. Most recently he served as Managing Director and Chief Development Officer for Ecofin, a $1.5 billion firm under TortoiseEcofin focused on sustainability and impact. At Tortoise, and later Ecofin, he developed and executed firm strategy and led the launch and execution of the firm’s private credit and equity strategies. In addition to his tenure at Tortoise and Ecofin, he served as an associate in Blackstone’s business development group where he contributed to the launch of Blackstone Capital Partners VI and the first Blackstone Energy Partners fund. Prior to Blackstone, he served as a ranger infantry officer in the U.S. Army, where he was awarded the Bronze Star Medal and Army Commendation for Valor. Mr. Goff earned a Bachelor of Science degree in economics from the United States Military Academy at West Point. He currently serves on the board of the University Academy Foundation and volunteers with KidsTLC.